November 23, 2008

Just to Prove That Sandra Izbasa Isn't the Only One Who Occasionally Gets Dolled Up by a Magazine...

THIS is a video of Cheng Fei doing a photo shoot of sorts.

We fear that La Cheng doesn't quite have La Izbasa's flair in these matters. She looks distinctly awkward. Also, that outfit? We're sure it's fashionable, but still. Weird, man. Weird.

If anyone has copies of the pictures of Cheng coolly kicking air while wearing those giant puffed sleeves, we'd love to see them. Pretty please?

Update: No pictures of the air kicks, but thanks to one of our readers, we did manage to find these shots!

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Thanks, Anonymous!

Update No. 2: The kick! We think those puffed sleeves are hilarious on a girl who's trying to look tough.

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Update No. 3: The whole series of photos can be seen as a slideshow here. Click on the right-hand button above the slideshow and you'll see the whole thing!

China Dominates Trophee Massilia

In Marseille, France, the Chinese girls won the annual Massilia Cup, beating Russia, 118.600-117.950. The victory was remarkable because China only had two competitors (Jiang Yuyuan and Guo Wei; Tian Mengsi was slated to compete but didn't), whereas all other seven teams in the competition used three gymnasts (two per event). Australia placed third, scoring 115.400.

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AA winner Jiang Yuyuan

The Chinese duo of Jiang and Guo did well on all events. Not surprisingly, they got the top score on bars: 30.250 (15.350 for Guo, 14.900 for Jiang). Russia, represented by juniors Aliya Mustafina, Viktoria Komova, and Kristina Goryunova, got the top scores on vault (28.950) and floor (30.050). On floor, Mustafina and Komova received 15.100 and 14.950, respectively (the two highest scores given on that apparatus). Unfortunately they didn't do so well on beam: 14.200 for Komova, 13.700 for Mustafina. Meanwhile, Australia got the top score on beam (30.600), thanks to a whopping 15.600 for Lauren Mitchell and a 15.000 for Ashleigh Brennan. Newcomer Britt Greeley was less successful for the Aussies, taking a 13.200 on bars.

Brazil's B team (Bruna Leal, Ethiene Franco, and Khiuani Dias) took a very respectable fourth place with a solid effort on beam. France's seniors (Youna Dufournet, Manon Erre, and Laetitia Dugain) placed fifth with disappointing scores on bars and floor. Romanian juniors Amelia Racea, Claudia Voicu, and Diana Trenca did well on beam (where Racea scored a 15.000), but took a disastrous 26.100 on bars (13.400 for Racea, 12.700 for Trenca) to finish sixth. The Netherlands (represented by Joy Goedkoop, Wyomi Masela, and Natasja Blind) placed seventh with solid work on vault and beam but errors on the other events, while the French juniors (Marine Brevet, Chloe Stanic, and Justine Crosato) finished eighth due to weak bar and floor exercises.

Team results:
1. China 118.600
2. Russia 117.950
3. Australia 115.400
4. Brazil 114.350
5. France Senior 113.150
6. Romania 112.500
7. Netherlands 111.550
8. France Junior 108.600

In the individual all-around, Jiang Yuyuan was victorious despite not counting a single score over 15.000 (59.400). Lauren Mitchell, fresh from a very successful DTB Cup, took yet another silver in Marseille with a 59.250. Guo Wei placed third despite logging two of the competition's top scores: 15.300 on bars and 15.600 on beam. In the end, a 13.900 vault proved her undoing (59.200 total).

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Lauren Mitchell (photo: AFP/Getty Images)

Individual results:
1. Jiang Yuyuan CHN 59.400
2. Lauren Mitchell AUS 59.250
3. Guo Wei CHN 59.200
4. Kristina Goryunova RUS 58.250
5. Viktoria Komova RUS 57.900
6. Aliya Mustafina RUS 57.300
7. Amelia Racea ROM 57.050
8. Youna Dufournet FRA 57.000
9. Bruna Leal BRA 56.700
10. Ethiene Franco BRA 56.050
11. Manon Erre FRA 55.750
12. Khiuani Dias BRA 55.600
13. Claudia Voicu ROM 55.000
14. Natasja Blind NED 54.800
15. Wyomi Masela NED 54.700
16. Joy Goedkoop NED 54.350
17. Marine Brevet FRA 54.300

The event also featured an Open category for club teams. The Shanghai team was in a league of its own here, scoring a massive 115.900. Canada 1 (109.850) and Canada 2 (108.000) placed a distant second and third, respectively, while America's young WOGA team ranked fourth (107.650).

Individually, Shanghai's Xiao Kangjun and Zhang Yujiao ranked first and second, respectively. Canada's Dominique Pegg finished third, ahead of Briley Casanova (WOGA) and Madeline Gardiner (Canada).

Another event, Top Massilia, open to participants from both the Open category and the Massilia category and only involving a few events of the gymnast's own choice, was won by Lauren Mitchell, who edged out Amelia Racea, Kristina Goryunova, Dominique Pegg, and Jiang Yuyuan.

In the event finals (also open to contestants from both categories), Jiang won two golds (bars and floor). On bars she beat Mitchell and Shanghai's Geng Ruowei for the title, on floor Mustafina and Guo. Masela won vault, beating Goryunova and Dufournet, while Guo beat Mitchell and Goryunova to claim the gold on beam.

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Holland's Wyomi Masela won the gold on vault (photo: Bernard Garau)

Complete results can be found here. (If the link is not working, go here and click "Entrez," then "Resultats" on the left-hand side. That should work.)

ETA: YouTube user AureliaGym is uploading videos of the event. Check back here every now and then to see what she's got!

November 22, 2008

Chinese News Roundup

While certain Chinese gymnasts were competing in Europe at the Massilia Gym Cup and the Milan Grand Prix, life went on in China for others. A quick, injury-free roundup of Sina stories from this weekend...

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--- On November 21 Olympic all-around champ Yang Wei received China's Best Athlete of the Year Award. In his acceptance speech a calm and collected Yang praised and thanked his teammates for their collective effort, which apparently meant a lot to him, then expressed his gratitude to his bride, Yang Yun. We're guessing the award means that the powers that be have forgiven Yang for his extremely lavish wedding, for which he came under a lot of fire in China.

--- Not surprisingly, Yang's coach Huang Yubin was voted Best Coach of the Year, not just in gymnastics, but overall. Huang couldn't personally accept the award as he was in Taiwan, but his fellow coach Wang Guoqing expressed his gratitude on his behalf.

--- Meanwhile, Jiang Yuyuan has won an award of her own, albeit a less formal one. According to her coach, Zhang Xia, Jiang is the "most intelligent, cutest and cleverest" member of the Chinese women's team. We'll second that!

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Jiang Yuyuan in front of a character that means "number". That'll be No. 1 then.

--- Finally, on a visit to Hong Kong University, Cheng Fei indicated that she might like to get a degree there after her retirement from gymnastics, whenever that may be. She also said she hoped to be back in Hong Kong next year, when the East Asian Games will be held in the city. We hope so too!

November 21, 2008

Injuries: Barbosa, Ferrari, Severino

Rumor has it that China beat Russia, Australia, Brazil, France senior, Romania, the Netherlands, and France junior (in that order) at the Massilia Gym Cup, but we haven't seen any official results yet, so we guess we'll just have to talk about injuries instead.

There's still no news about Jade Barbosa, who was supposed to have an MRI scan a few days ago. We're keeping an eye on the Brazilian sports sites, but so far there haven't been any updates. We hope that doesn't mean Jade is bracing herself for a retirement announcement.

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Vanessa Ferrari (photo: Gazzetta dello Sport)

We do have news about Vanessa Ferrari. A few days ago, a major Italian sports paper, La Gazzetta dello Sport, posted an update on the former world champion with the somewhat worrying title, "Ferrari, A Cannibal Experiencing an Identity Crisis." Reportedly the 18-year-old from Brixia, who has been suffering from an Achilles tendon injury and deep bursitis in her right leg for some time now, is getting very frustrated because despite 3 months' rest and 2 months' rehab [presumably these two overlap, as we could have sworn we saw Vanessa at the Olympics 3 months ago...], she is nowhere near healthy enough to resume training. "The Cannibal" (as she is known in the Italian press) will have physical therapy for one more month before deciding whether another operation is in order. If she ever makes it back to the gym, she'll have her work cut out for her, as it seems she has some excess weight to shed. According to the Gazzetta dello Sport, "Vani" is currently seven kilos (15.4 Lbs) overweight. Yeah, that would plunge us into an identity crisis too.

Good luck, Vanessa. We hope to see you back at some point, with or without those added 7 kilos.

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Isabelle Severino

Meanwhile, it seems that Isabelle Severino, who tore her Achilles tendon just before the Europeans, actually called it quits a few days after the accident. However, she's not totally done with the sport. Rumor has it Severino is running for a position in the Directorate of the French Gymnastics Federation. Elections are to be held next week, on November 29. Stay tuned...

Sandra As You've Never Seen Her Before...

Well, we did say we wanted to post something cheerful and uplifting. A happy gymnastics story. Something that had nothing to do with either injuries or scandals. Something nice.

We guess we found it. And not surprisingly, it concerns Sandra Izbaşa, whom we can't help loving despite the fact that she's not the most elegant gymnast in the world. There's just something fabulously refreshing and wholesome about her. And we're going to post the video because it's cute and because it's been 11 days since we last posted anything about Sandra, and 11 days without news about Sandra is, like, a long time, y'all.

So. Today we'll show you Sandra as you've never seen her before.

THIS LINK will take you to a video posted by The One, a Romanian online magazine. It shows Sandra getting professionally made up and looking very pretty indeed. At the end of the one-minute video, she tells the viewer that her plan for next year is to get the world title which has so far eluded her. We don't know about you, but we like the sound of that!

As a teaser, here's a photo from the shoot. However, we think Sandra looks much prettier in the video. Do check it out!

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Sandra Izbaşa (photo: The One)

November 20, 2008

And the Scandals Just Keep On Coming...

We can hardly believe it ourselves, but it seems we've got another scandal for you. Admittedly it's not as big as the Karolyi and Brazilian scandals, but it's a scandal, and as such we think it is our duty to fill you in on it. (Feel free to send us happy gymnastics stories if you're fed up with the scandals. We'd dearly like to post a cheerful and uplifting story for once!)

The protagonist of today's scandal is Verona van de Leur, who placed 2nd AA at the 2002 Europeans and 2nd on floor at the 2002 Worlds, after which she was voted Holland's Athlete of the Year (an honor which had never been bestowed on a Dutch gymnast before). Verona quit gymnastics last summer after an emotionally fraught period during which her coach, Esther Heijnen, was sacked from her club, and her former coach Frank Louter played mind games with her at the Europeans. On June 19 Verona announced her retirement, saying it was partly because of the "political games" played by the Dutch Gymnastics Federation in Clermont-Ferrand, and partly because of "personal reasons." At the time she declined to elaborate on the latter.

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Fast-forward half a year and Verona van de Leur is breaking her silence on those "personal reasons." Yesterday morning the former Dutch champion, who will turn 23 next month, appeared on a breakfast show called Goedemorgen Nederland (Good Morning Holland), telling a story of parental estrangement of which Dominique Moceanu would have been proud. In addition to the TV show, a Dutch magazine called Revu has published an article entitled "Verona van de Leur's Rotten Life." We haven't read the magazine yet, but thanks to Heidemarie's mad linguistic skills (no jokes please), we got a transcript of the TV interview.

In the Goedemorgen Nederland interview Verona accuses her parents of several things. Her main accusation is that her parents don't approve of her boyfriend, who apparently has a criminal record, and have turned everyone they know against the couple; supposedly even Verona's coach isn't speaking to her anymore. Another, equally damaging allegation is that her parents used her prize money and sponsorship deals for their own ends, without ever consulting her on the matter.

Allegedly Verona's parents managed her money for the greater part of her career. According to Verona, they paid her gymnastics fees but also helped themselves to large chunks of her income, using Verona's money to pay for her sister's gym fees, contact lenses, and school books; her father's soccer club membership dues; her parents' gas; trips abroad; and so on. Some of which would have been okay, Verona says, if they hadn't done it behind her back. "They made it sound as if they were doing a lot for me - 'Never mind, we don't mind sacrificing a bit for you' - but all the while I was paying for it myself, and paying for their things too," said Verona. And it seems all the money is gone now. "I keeping asking my Dad where the money went - I have certain things in writing - but he won't tell me anything." Verona's father reportedly denies the allegations, claiming that all the money was spent on Verona's gymnastics fees - magnesium powder, leos, travel expenses, etc.

Verona accuses her parents of other things too. Her father allegedly broke into her laptop and Hotmail account to find incriminating material on her boyfriend, of whom he doesn't approve. In the fracas ensuing over that, her parents reportedly threw her out of the house without any of her belongings and changed the locks so she couldn't enter the house. They now call the police whenever she tries to come near the house. Says Verona, "I've spent about seven hours at the police station trying to explain the situation, but they can't help me either."

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Verona and the controversial boyfriend (photo: Revu)

The breakfast show featured some less serious accusations as well. Allegedly Verona's mother was "very result-oriented" and would refuse to pick her daughter up from the airport if she had failed to get good results in an overseas competition. "I'd be abroad and after an unsatisfactory competition I'd receive a text message saying, 'You'll just have to grab a train home tomorrow.' All the other girls would be picked up from the airport by their parents, but I'd have to take a train home."

In the end, the family drama proved a little too much for Verona. While it was "the political games" played at the Europeans that were the final straw, it was the lack of family support that really upset her. "If my parents had supported me, all that [the coaching situation, the games played at the Europeans] would have been much easier to deal with," said Verona in the TV interview. As it was, "it was an enormous mental burden. I just couldn't deal with it anymore." So she quit.

Asked about her plans for the future, Verona answered that she would first have to gain a full understanding of her situation, then "start all over again." She added that it would be very hard to start over, without any money or the help of her family.

Good luck with that, Verona. We hope you and your family will patch it up eventually, like the Moceanus.

November 19, 2008

The Karolyi Scandal: A Few Contributions by Adrian Goreac, Ecaterina Szabo and Rodica Dunca

While we were busy following the Brazilian scandal, another scandal made headlines elsewhere. As we're sure you've read by now (if not, check out Gymblog), former Romanian national team member Emilia Eberle (a contemporary of Nadia Comaneci's, now known as Trudi Kollar) has denounced Bela Karolyi, accusing him of very harsh treatment indeed. She's not the first former Romanian gymnast to speak out on Karolyi's brutish ways; earlier, Rodica Dunca, Melita Ruhn and Ecaterina Szabo gave interviews in which they mentioned being starved, slapped, beaten up or otherwise abused by Karolyi, and last year even Adrian Goreac, Karolyi's successor as Romania's head coach, indicated that all was not well in Deva when Karolyi ruled there (more on that below). What's different now is that Geza Pozsar, the former Romanian team choreographer and probably Bela Karolyi's closest collaborator (other than his wife Martha), has confirmed Eberle's story, and added a few convincing details of his own. Moreover, the stories have been picked up by the American media, which could lead to an interesting situation. Will this be the end of the Karolyis' career in American gymnastics? Somehow we doubt it. U.S.A.G. has stood by the Karolyis too long. The organization would bring itself into disrepute by launching an investigation into them.

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Bela and Martha Karolyi (photo: Romanian-gymnastics.com)

As far as we're concerned, it should be the end of the Karolyis, though. We've been hearing for years about their brutal training methods, both from Romanian gymnasts and (to some extent) from American gymnasts. The reports were quite consistent, and consistently awful. Based on those reports, we don't think people like the Karolyis should be put in charge of children, much less be revered for the way they treat those children. So we're going to present you with a few choice quotes about the Karolyis from three people who worked with them in Romania and were brave enough to speak up: Adrian Goreac, Rodica Dunca, and Ecaterina Szabo. To back up the Eberle and Pozsar stories, so to speak.

Firstly, let's hear from Adrian Goreac, the man who took over from the Karolyis when they defected to America. Under Goreac, the Romanian team blossomed. It was the era of Ecaterina Szabo, Lavinia Agache, Daniela Silivas, Aurelia Dobre, and Gabriela Potorac - the Golden Age of Romanian gymnastics, or so many fans believe.

In December 2007, Adrian Goreac (who left Romania in 1990 after a conflict with the Romanian Gymnastics Federation and has lived in France ever since) granted two interviews to Romanian newspapers about his days in charge of the team and the reasons for his departure. In the interviews, he also touched upon his predecessor, Bela Karolyi. If anyone is interested, we'll post translations of the whole interviews at some point, but for now we're going to focus on the passages which have a bearing on Karolyi.

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Adrian Goreac (left) receives a presidential distinction in 2007 (photo: Romanian-gymnastics.com)

The first interview, published by Evenimentul Zilei on December 8, 2007, has a headline which says it all: "Bela Karolyi was a dictator."

Evenimentul Zilei: "Let's start at the beginning. What was the team like after Karolyi's defection?"
Adrian Goreac: "It was a difficult moment, because the team had just come back from the [1981] World Championships in Russia, where it had failed to win a single medal. Nadia Comaneci and her contemporaries had reached the end of their careers. I asked them what they wanted, and they told me they wanted to stay in Deva to continue their education. I moved them [from the gymnasts' hostel] to the Party hotel. Tavi Belu, who was my second in command, had more to do with them than I. Slowly, Ecaterina Szabo, Daniela Silivas, Aurelia Dobre, and the others began to emerge."

Evenimentul Zilei: "So you basically rebuilt the team?"
Adrian Goreac: "I wouldn't say that. Romania had excellent club coaches all along, who provided us with our 'raw material.' However, Bela Karolyi had halted other coaches' access to the national teams, because he was completely in charge. I opened the door to them and relied much on other coaches. I only wanted one thing: To demonstrate that there was more to Romanian gymnastics than Nadia and Bela. I don't know whether I succeeded, but I do know that my girls were less tormented than Nadia."

Yep, the man said "tormented."

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Bela Karolyi (photo: Gazeta Sporturilor)

Then there's this bit:

Evenimentul Zilei: "Was life at the Deva center as tough as they say?"
Adrian Goreac: "You could say it was a soldierly regime, but the girls knew that and accepted it. [Note: We think he's talking about his own term as head coach here, not Karolyi's.] Romanian gymnastics began to slip after Bela Karolyi. Don't get me wrong, I don't envy him, but he was tough, a dictator. He wasn't a specialist, but I've always admired him for his incredible drive, workwise. He was a success because he had an exception: Nadia. I won't lie to you, I also shouted at the girls and sometimes gave them a parental slap, but only when I caught them trafficking wine, cigarettes, etc. I abhor violence and never hit any gymnast for a mistake she made in the gym. But one way or another, on top of [Karolyi's] perseverance and hard work, there was talk of brutishness, which here and there is still going on today."

(Goreac uses a very strong word for "brutishness": bestialitate.)

Evenimentul Zilei: "In what respect was Bela Karolyi a dictator?"
Adrian Goreac: "Bela had oligarchic tendencies, because he had tasted power. In the end he could even pick the Securitate officials who accompanied the team on trips abroad! He had connections. He was a friend of Ilie Verdet's [a high-ranking politican of the time, also brother-in-law to Nicolae Ceausescu], with whom he went hunting. He made himself indispensable and built a mob around himself. After Montreal, every country on earth wanted Nadia to come and do exhibitions, but often the money the organizers of such events paid ended up in the pockets of Karolyi and his cronies. Some 20,000 to 30,000 dollars, it was rumored. It went to his head. He would give high-ranking communists instructions, telling them: 'If that doesn't suit you, why don't you come to the gym tomorrow yourself!' He'd fill his Mercedes up at the gas station and tell the assistants to send the bill to the provincial authorities! It infuriated the Securitate. When Bela felt that things were getting complicated, he stayed in the United States, with a suitcase full of money from the the tour they were on. He'd gotten scared."

This seems to jive with the stories Emilia Eberle and Geza Pozsar just told the Romanian media. The similarities are remarkable.

In a way, even Octavian Belu, no stranger to harsh training methods himself, subtly admitted that something was not entirely right about Karolyi's methods. Asked for a response to Goreac's allegations about Karolyi, the ever diplomatic Belu told Evenimentul Zilei: "Everybody assumes responsibility for his own declarations. I don't want to enter into this controversy. All I want to say is that we have Nadia, and that we owe her to the Karolyis."

We don't know about you, but we read that as a "guilty as charged."

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Ecaterina Szabo (photo: Getty Images)

But there's more.

A few months ago, Goreac and Belu's pupil Ecaterina Szabo (1983 world champion on floor and quadruple gold medalist at the 1984 Olympics) also had some unkind words to say about the Karolyis. In an interview with the Romanian magazine Fanatik, Szabo, who as a promising junior was on the American tour from which the Karolyis defected, had this to say about the man with whom she briefly trained before becoming a star: "We were still in America in 1981 when the Karolyis stayed behind. I remember that we returned to Romania on April 1, 1981, and I was so happy on the plane that I'd escaped them! We partied so hard that the flight attendants were no match for us and I believed the plane might crash with us aboard. I'll never forget the slaps in the face and the beatings I got from Bela Karolyi!"

She doesn't go into detail, but there's no mistaking that last sentence.

(If anyone is interested in the whole Szabo interview, let us know and we'll translate it.)

However, until Emilia Eberle and Geza Pozsar's allegations, the most damning indictment of the Karolyis came courtesy of Rodica Dunca, who represented Romania at the 1979 and 1981 World Championships and the 1980 Olympics. We couldn't find the original interview, which we believe was published by ProSport in 2002, but we found excerpts of it reproduced in a Romanian blog. Translated, they read as follows:

Asked by the journalist whether Karolyi's methods were tough, Dunca answered, "I think 'tough' isn't the right word when you're lucky if you escape with merely a beating. Some days we were beaten until the blood streamed out of our noses. Hunger was our eternal enemy."

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Rodica Dunca and Nadia Comaneci in 1983, two years after the Karolyis defected. They looked considerably happier then than they had before. (Photo: Tom Theobald)

The blog continues: And then she tells shocking stories, with revelations about girls fleeing from training camps and Securitate officials arresting 13- and 14-year-old girls in stations, forcing them to go back to the "prison" in Deva. About the threats they received on their return to Deva: That if they ever tried to escape again, their parents would suffer for it. We hear how Nadia Comaneci hid in an unused toilet for three days because she was so afraid of her coach. But the most frightening passage in Rodica Dunca's confessions is this:

"Because of hunger, we often put ourselves in extreme situations. And the methods by which they kept us away from food probably could have killed us."

ProSport: "What were those methods?"
Rodica Dunca: "I remember that in 1979, before the Fort Worth World Championships, Nadia was a few pounds too heavy. We were on a training camp in Germany. Geza Pozsar, our choregrapher, and Bela Karolyi slept in our room with us. In front of the door to the toilet. When we needed to go to the toilet, we had to pee with the door open."

ProSport: "Why?"
Rodica Dunca: "They were afraid that we'd somehow drink water. But we'd go into the bathroom, do what we had to do and wait a while before flushing the toilet. We'd climb onto the toilet with a glass in our hands and drink from the overhead cistern. That's how we drank our fill."

ProSport: "You could have gotten some disease that way."
Rodica Dunca: "That didn't matter. The same thing happened when we took a shower. They kept an eye on us, and we weren't allowed to raise our chins, so we couldn't ingest any water."

ProSport: "What did you eat before competitions?"
Rodica Dunca: "In the morning we'd get one slice of salami, two nuts, and a glass of milk. In the evening we'd get the same menu, only without the nuts."

ProSport: "Did you ever eat to your heart's content?"
Rodica Dunca: "Only twice in my career as a gymnast."

ProSport: "Just twice?"
Rodica Dunca: "No, actually, there was a third time. We were at an exhibition in Spain. One time we left the hotel. I don't know why the coaches weren't around at the time. At a few meters' distance from the building there was a field of strawberries. We all swooped down on them like termites and ate as many strawberries as we wanted. But it came out later, because the owner of the strawberries made a scene at the hotel."

ProSport: "Did you ever suffer any serious health problems?"
Rodica Dunca: "Many times. Broken feet, a broken shoulder, among other things. I remember that when we began to menstruate, the assistant took us to her office and gave us an injection. The injection probably contained hormones, because after that, I didn't menstruate for almost two years. The same thing happened to the other girls."

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Rodica Dunca (photo: Tom Theobald)

ProSport: "What kind of pills did you take?"
Rodica Dunca: "We didn't actually take any pills ourselves; they practically shoved them down our throats! The assistant would stand next to everyone to make sure we swallowed the pills. In the morning we'd get 14 pills, for lunch we'd get 20 pills and 4 little envelopes full of powder, and in the evening we'd get 10 pills. I still don't know what kind of pills they were, but after I left gymnastics, I had problems."

ProSport: What kind of problems?
Rodica Dunca: "I was dependent on them, and afterwards I was forced to buy [the pills] for another year. The pharmacist crossed himself when he saw how much I could ingest."

So there you have it. Add all these quotes to the stories told by Emilia Eberle and Geza Pozsar, and you should have enough material for a serious investigation, we should think.

Not that we're holding our breath.