tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post8699585686143734241..comments2023-12-15T18:58:20.806-06:00Comments on Triple Full: The Karolyi Scandal: A Few Contributions by Adrian Goreac, Ecaterina Szabo and Rodica DuncaThe Gym Girlshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04362416176989111908noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-80998778557078643902015-02-06T07:14:27.159-06:002015-02-06T07:14:27.159-06:00They should be investigated. I don't know why ...They should be investigated. I don't know why they weren't. I understand under the Romanian regime doing stuff like that but not in America. Poor Nadia and the like are probably too scared to admit it happened. This being pretty much standard in abuse cases.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-90438545265381895742014-03-23T13:36:12.089-05:002014-03-23T13:36:12.089-05:00I was with Bela at a exhibition event with past Ol...I was with Bela at a exhibition event with past Olympians. They were older and heavier. He was joking and laughing and making horrible comments about them in the stands while he watched them.ex-gymnasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01212597575402020755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-55218496495633720672014-03-23T13:29:11.057-05:002014-03-23T13:29:11.057-05:00Kerri Strug was not Bela's gymnast for very lo...Kerri Strug was not Bela's gymnast for very long she was raised and coached by Jim Gault in Arizona. Bela's mythical illusion that you have to be on his team to achieve stardom and endorsements is unfair to the rest of the American Gymnastics community that is out there working hard and coaching great gymnasts. He basically has been a celebrity for the press and that wont go away until he is gone. He is not a nice man and if you think that ruthlessness instead of hard work is right than talk to retired gymnasts and see how they feel. It really is more than Olympic glory because only a small few get there. Many foreigners come to America for the dream of success. Many times they promise parents and gymnasts hopes so they get paid healthy sums. Those are the gymnasts who may retire unhappy when they dont accomplish their dreams. One more thing is I'm horrified at the lack of dance and body placement skills in gymnastics. If you have a real dance backround try getting into the sport. <br />Geza Pozsar made a ton of money for hidious choreography and he and Trudi have not produced a gymnast on the podiums.ex-gymnasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01212597575402020755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-77661093102559682732013-12-28T22:46:18.266-06:002013-12-28T22:46:18.266-06:00I also trained under Karolyi in Romania until I wa...I also trained under Karolyi in Romania until I was 13, when he defected in 1981. He was the sole voice in the gym; we never spoke and never said anything in an international competitions to anyone. We were also told to lie and say we trained 4-5 hours a day, 5-6 times a week, we also had our ages changed in many of the European competitions so we could compete in senior meets. Bela and Marta could be the nastiest people in the world: they were especially good at picking on weak or defenseless gymnasts as well. And yes, I saw them hit gymnasts across the face, and even kick them as well. If you made a mistake in a competition, you would be consoled in front of everyone, and then yelled at and grabbed or shoved into a wall in private and told you would never compete again internationally. Verbally they were very mean as well: using cow, pig, overstuffed turkey to describe gymnasts to their face. they also tried to create rivalries among gymnasts to get the better performances out of them. I think once he left Romania, the entire program improved because we got rid of Geza Pozar too, who was horrendous in choreography and I always wondered how a man could create such "girlie"routines...always seemed creepy to me, but whatever.....I grew too tall and eventually could not do any difficult tumbling on the floor and then when I broke my ankle a second time my parents decided it was enough and pulled me out of gymnastics. I think I was a good overall experience for me, but I think the injuries and stress I had were definitely because the Karolyi's were not good coaches and because they were really more interested in fame for themselves then how we felt as people and athletes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-71027291676371883112012-08-03T05:45:18.170-05:002012-08-03T05:45:18.170-05:00the Karolyi's defected but their methods remai...the Karolyi's defected but their methods remained, just look at "The secret of Deva" documentary. Florin Dunga the uneven bars coach refers to a 10 year old athlete with "stupid cow" shouting at her, and that is with cameras on. Considering the fear in that girls eyes there's no doubt that with cameras off she would have been beaten.. Karolyi's would be nowhere without talented athletes, and that is something one is born with and definitely not built with violence and harsh methods..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-28531203522797878482012-07-06T01:58:55.383-05:002012-07-06T01:58:55.383-05:00The Karolyi's mistreated Dominique Moceanu and...The Karolyi's mistreated Dominique Moceanu and after she failed to bring them any glory at the 1996 Atlanta Olypmics, they ignored her. They had basically written off Kerri Strug, until she vaulted on a broken foot and won the team gold for the USA at the same Olympics in 1996. Remember on the first vault, Kerri hurt her ankle and stumbled trying to walk. And Bela telling her "you can do it." He knew she was injured but wanted her to vault again anyway. Then after she vaulted a second time and really hurt the ankle but won the gold for team USA, Bela just couldn't get enough of Kerri. Before that, all of his focus was on Moceanu. She was supposed to be the next Nadia and when she wasn't ... He glommed onto Kerri and took all the credit for all her hard work and sacrifice. Read Dominique Moceanu's book for her stories of Karolyi hell. She tells of starvation at Marta & Bela's hands. Why are these two people allowed to run gynastics in the USA? The last really great USA women's team was in 1996 before the Karolyi's took over. Get the old "Communist" guard out of there and do it fairly where you have to qualify for the Olympics by your SCORE at Olypmic Trials, not picked by abusive dictators.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-6743862686969565622012-06-09T17:18:24.783-05:002012-06-09T17:18:24.783-05:00I believe these stories. It's horrible to tre...I believe these stories. It's horrible to treat people like this. The thing is, we're judging them by current standards (many of us, American standards). Even in the US, during the 60's and 70's, it was acceptable to use physical punishment on children. They even spanked, paddled, hit, slapped, etc. in schools here. Some didn't stop until fairly recently. It's not fair to compare modern America, where we coddle children to communist Romania in the 60's and 70's. Yes, this treatment would have been seen as terrible in Romania at the time, but not nearly as bad as Americans are viewing it today. It doesn't make it OK, it's just something to think about. You have to consider the time and place when analyzing history.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-8093720342903926772012-03-19T23:40:49.444-05:002012-03-19T23:40:49.444-05:00What I think is that maybe Bela was nice to the at...What I think is that maybe Bela was nice to the athletes who brought him the best achievements, and treated those top athletes better. If you don't want to be slapped by him, you better be good and stick every rountine in competitions. Something like that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-18324024354490519202011-12-30T18:08:20.879-06:002011-12-30T18:08:20.879-06:00Bela Karolyi is so mean...he was abusive to the yo...Bela Karolyi is so mean...he was abusive to the young girls. But I don't know why! Why the crap did he do that to her?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-45691102323109669562011-12-14T05:35:01.163-06:002011-12-14T05:35:01.163-06:00Something not mentioned here is the possible effec...Something not mentioned here is the possible effect that Bela and Marta Karolyi's training methds may have had on other gymnastics coaches in the United States. Were they popular as trainers of trainers initially when Mary Lou Retton started getting results and became 1984 Olympic champion? Do they still have some indirect influence on training and preparation methods? <br /><br />Another thing I'd like to know is whether the Karolyis exerted any or much influence over the selection of gymnasts for the US national teams from the mid-1980s on. Did the Karolyis prefer their own gymnasts over those of other coaches? Should coaches who are selected as national coaches even have any say over the selection of gymnasts to the national team?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-4691015306467162942011-07-08T17:12:33.708-05:002011-07-08T17:12:33.708-05:00It is all about exploitation of the athletes.
In ...It is all about exploitation of the athletes.<br /> In Russia,some coaches used to take a big <br /> portion of their star athletes money that was<br /> earned in different international exhibitions<br /> and used to beat and starve their athletes.<br /> Now that Russia and Romania are not communist<br /> countries anymore,I think that the athletes <br /> nowadays should not let coaches mistreat them<br /> in anyway and hopefully their parents protect<br /> them from coaches that give them harsh<br /> treatment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-67900896504111447892011-04-04T23:48:30.364-05:002011-04-04T23:48:30.364-05:00As a Romanian gymnast during Bela’s “regime”, I ca...As a Romanian gymnast during Bela’s “regime”, I can attest that we were subjected to beatings, starvation, and long hours of training. We were kept away from family and not allowed to make phone calls. We all went to the same boarding school and kept under constant and strict supervision. I was beaten with thorny branches from a rose bush outside. I broke my arm during a training exercise and was forced to train for a week w/o seeking any type of medical care. I mustered up the courage to sneak out and call my mom in the middle of night to complain. Needless to say, after 3 years of mistreatment and abuse, my mom finally learned of what was happening and pulled me out. Oh yeah, and the doc had to re-break my arm in order for it to heal correctly. Just reading these stories brings me back to that era of a small frightened child. The end does not justify the means.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-71292542997408751322010-06-12T21:21:04.769-05:002010-06-12T21:21:04.769-05:00LG, find yourself some old photos and/or videos of...LG, find yourself some old photos and/or videos of Emilia Eberle and you'll be shocked. She was shockingly thin throughout her career, not to mention distinctly unhappy-looking. It's not hard to believe she was starved and otherwise maltreated. The girls on the 1979 Worlds team (including Nadia) were rail thin. They looked distinctly unhealthy. It was blamed on food poisoning at the time, but Rodica Dunca's story makes it sound like the girls were subjected to an extreme diet under which they weren't even allowed to drink water. We have our reservations about some parts of Dunca's story, but that part, unfortunately, sounds true.The Gym Girlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362416176989111908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-62637091519926364292010-06-12T14:44:56.877-05:002010-06-12T14:44:56.877-05:00as much as I believe in brutal ways of some coache...as much as I believe in brutal ways of some coaches, there's one question that keeps bugging me. The gymnasts trains many hours a day, it's difficult for me to believe that it's possible with as extreme diet as the one that Szabo described. I mean, common, even for a normaly functionning human being it wouldn't be enough and at some point the body would stard consuming itself. For a gymnast, it would be a very fast process. But they all, while look slim, thin even, they definitely do not look like anorectics or victims of concetration camp (which is basically what they are describing). How's that possible?LGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-65472946531198087972009-07-15T14:17:17.223-05:002009-07-15T14:17:17.223-05:00Emilia aka Trudi is a wonderful coach ,teacher,and...Emilia aka Trudi is a wonderful coach ,teacher,and a great mother to her son. She is kind hearted and very caring. She takes her time and pours all of her heart and soul into her girls. She has not let her past keep her from the sport that she loves.We are so blessed to have her in our childrens lives. Thank you Karolyis for making her a wonderful person. You taught her what not to be.She has learned from your mistakes. That which does not kill you will only make you stronger! and in Trudi's case she is stonger!!!! WE LOVE YOU TRUDI!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-41168148051364092912009-01-04T05:23:00.000-06:002009-01-04T05:23:00.000-06:00Anonymous, there've been many debates on whether t...Anonymous, there've been many debates on whether these stories are true or not, and most people agree that they must be. There are simply too many similarities in the stories for them to be complete fabrications. Even Nadia said bad things about Bela when she first arrived in the United States. Then she realized that Bela was "big" in the U.S., and that she needed him for business purposes, and that's when she began to cozy up to him. She hasn't badmouthed Bela since, but she hasn't denied any of her former teammates' allegations either. Ever. Which leads us to believe that she's quite happy to let her former teammates tell her story for her, without getting burned herself.<BR/><BR/>As for Nadia's autobiography, that's generally assumed to have been heavily censored, and not quite truthful.<BR/><BR/>We can think of several reasons why the U.S. team is allowed to train at Bela's ranch. One is that Bela isn't actually coaching anymore. He doesn't get to work with the girls in that capacity anymore. Another is that U.S.A. Gymnastics is simply in too deeply with the Karolyis to start investigating their past now. They would incur a hefty loss of face by doing so. And finally, there is a possibility that the Karolyis may have cleaned up their act somewhat since they got to the U.S. They must have realized pretty quickly that they would get sued for every cent they were worth if they treated their American charges the way they had treated their Romanian ones. Don't be fooled into believing Bela is this lovely, big, cuddly bear though. Several American former Karolyi students have confirmed that he could be a very unpleasant coach to work under. Some of them admitted they needed his approach and wouldn't have reached the top without it; others have claimed it broke them. Martha too has come in for some criticism, both from Romanian gymnasts and from American ones. Run a google search and you'll find plenty of evidence suggesting that the Karolyis are not the kind people the American audience generally perceives them to be. And if you don't believe that evidence, look up some Emilia Eberle videos on YouTube, and notice how scarily thin and unhappy she looks in every single one of them. She was not a happy gymnast under the Karolyis. Not at all.The Gym Girlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362416176989111908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-14235910222880441502009-01-04T05:10:00.000-06:002009-01-04T05:10:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.The Gym Girlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362416176989111908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-50486046709156713972009-01-03T06:06:00.000-06:002009-01-03T06:06:00.000-06:00This is sick! It is really true? When I red Nadia ...This is sick! It is really true? When I red Nadia Comaneci's autobiography she did not mention anything of this. She said that she loved Bela, and that he was like second father for her. She also said that she naver saw any kind of drugs. And that they had plenty of food every day. She also said she had a safe and happy childhodd, but ofcourse it was hard sometimes. But if you are a top athlete, ofcourse it is hard times..<BR/><BR/>And when she in 1978 was beeing moved away from Bela. She was very unhappy, and did actually pretending suicide, just because she wanted people to understand that something was not good. And if he was that horror-coach, why did she want to come back? If he was that ''bestialitate'' man, how can the US team be allowd travel to his summercamp, and stay there for several weeks. They all say that he is a nice and funny man. (just ask Shawn Johnson and Nastia Liukin)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-19114696252406903862008-11-21T18:22:00.000-06:002008-11-21T18:22:00.000-06:00Thanks, Emily. You're welcome. We're glad to see t...Thanks, Emily. You're welcome. We're glad to see there's some interest in the Goreac and Szabo interviews. We'll probably post them next week!The Gym Girlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362416176989111908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-52535947224719502452008-11-21T09:52:00.000-06:002008-11-21T09:52:00.000-06:00Thanks for posting these stories. You do such a g...Thanks for posting these stories. You do such a great job of investigating. I would love to read the complete Goreac and Szabo interviews, if you were able to translate them. Many thanks!Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09455713991259815700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-12041797530740486192008-11-21T09:13:00.000-06:002008-11-21T09:13:00.000-06:00You're welcome. We're asking ourselves the same qu...You're welcome. We're asking ourselves the same question. Romania's horror stories are fairly well documented, but there must be countless similar stories in China, the former Soviet Union, and even the U.S.A. We wonder if we'll ever hear them, and if so, whether there will be any repercussions. For some reason coaches seem to be able to get away with this kind of behavior. Worrying, isn't it?The Gym Girlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362416176989111908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-55281564785757129482008-11-20T22:17:00.000-06:002008-11-20T22:17:00.000-06:00Thanks for posting this story. I wonder how much h...Thanks for posting this story. I wonder how much hidden stories circulate within the gymnastics world that haven't made it to the "outside", if you know what I mean. I cannot even imagine what these athletes went through, and what some are still going through.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-13973088310727108652008-11-20T16:38:00.000-06:002008-11-20T16:38:00.000-06:00No, we don't think they'll be removed from power e...No, we don't think they'll be removed from power either. We can only hope that they have enough integrity to resign of their own accord. We doubt that will happen though.<BR/><BR/>We're wondering to what extent the Karolyis have changed. Obviously they can't be as violent in America as they used to be in Romania, 'cause there'd be giant lawsuits if they were. But they still give off an unpleasant vibe. Do you think they've changed much? We don't, really.The Gym Girlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362416176989111908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-48310689127930952102008-11-20T13:26:00.000-06:002008-11-20T13:26:00.000-06:00That is insanely disgraceful. I have heard people ...That is insanely disgraceful. I have heard people say (over on Gymnastics Coaching, mostly) that the Karoyli's should not be removed from power...but your story makes it obvious they must be. Whatever Bela is like now, it is enough that he did this in the past. He and Marta should be removed ASAP. Not that it will ever happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1943980977308137302.post-63249602739721638872008-11-20T06:34:00.000-06:002008-11-20T06:34:00.000-06:00yuck. stories like this and the trudi kellar story...yuck. stories like this and the trudi kellar story and the brazilian stuff leave a foul taste in my mouth. i'm not liking the sport much this month.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com